You can find out more about Ali here www.draliyoung.com

And purchase a copy of her Bestselling book Work.Mama.Life here 

https://www.draliyoung.com/workmamalife

 

Download Eve's Business starter checklist here:

Download your business starter checklist

We would love to hear from you if you have any questions or comments regarding this episode. You can reach us at [email protected]

Here's where to find us on socials:

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Trisha

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You can also connect with us on LinkedIn :) 

Eve & Trisha

Eve Drew  00:00

Welcome to the business of health Podcast. I'm Eve Drew, founder of Her Health Collective.

 

Trisha Cashmere  00:05

And I'm Trisha Cashmere, CEO of the Healthy Body Company. And we are so glad that you found our podcast. We hope

 

Eve Drew  00:11

We hope you find it inspiring, educational and empowering. Hello and welcome to the Business of Health Podcast. Joining me today is my wonderful co host Trisha Cashmere. Hi, Trisha how are you>. I'm really well thank you. And we've also got a very special guest today. Dr. Ali Young. Hi, Ali.

 

Dr Ali Young  00:29

Hi, Eve. Hi, Trisha. Hello.

 

Eve Drew  00:33

Ali is an accomplished chiropractor in private practice and entrepreneur, and a mother with over 19 years clinical and business experience. Ali works passionately with mothers and children to support their vitality and health choices in her practice, and online. So we met Ali at a within a Business Mastermind Group, Her Empire Builder. And I guess being all health professionals, we naturally gravitated towards each other. And today, we'd really like to explore burnout, the attrition rate in healthcare is a little a little worrying at the moment, really, a lot of people are moving out of health care. And we'd just like to talk about a few of the reasons why what burnout look like looks like and what we can do as humans, health professionals and business owners to support support other humans. So welcome, Ali.

 

Dr Ali Young  01:24

Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm very excited for this chat today. I feel like like you said, though, amount of people leaving our professions is huge. And we've really had it amplified to us where I live locally, because we are now in a community with 261 days of no maternity service, but we're a 70,000 strong community. So we've got a lot of health professionals trying to do their very, very best but unable to do what they need to do support. And it's just felt like a continuation of that COVID stress of the two years prior. So it's something we're all living and it's something that we're seeing wider as well.

 

Eve Drew  02:07

Yeah, you're up on the on the Queensland coast at the moment, Ali?

 

Dr Ali Young  02:12

Yes. So six hours north of Brisbane on the coast, though. Yeah,

 

Eve Drew  02:17

yeah. I think in we're both in regional areas, and Trisha is in a capital city. And whilst there are differences between those local challenges, I guess, we're seeing it across the board. Definitely. What are you seeing in, you know, a big capital city like Sydney? Tricia,

 

Trisha Cashmere  02:34

 I think that will personally what I see is it's very difficult to recruit to health professional roles, and everyone I speak to in our industry is having exactly the same problems. Personally, it means that to get into see my GP can take, you know, three weeks. So while we're really fortunate Ali compared to you, we do have the services, they're definitely stretched, and they're definitely not able to meet the demands of what everybody's needing. And then the other huge one that is happening and probably more something I'm more aware of, because of the age of my my kids is there's a really significant mental health crisis that seems to be happening with young people. And young adults as well. Actually seeing that in my team. And access to mental health services also seems to be incredibly stretched. So it doesn't sort of seem to matter where you look. The things that you need, you can't either can't access or can't access in a timely fashion.

 

Dr Ali Young  03:32

Yeah, yeah, we are the same up here we've got people with significant PND and the only option is online, non video teleconferencing. There's no support at all for that mental health support here either. And it's a really tough road.

 

Trisha Cashmere  03:51

That's very difficult. And you know, as allied health professionals, I always feel like we're the hairdresser's of health and so much like we are because people come and you touch them and they tell you everything so you know, and I wonder if some of the exertion in our teens is actually that they're taking on not just their professional role, but they're taking on so much of the other stuff that people are carrying, because they are you know, empathetic people they are good listeners. You know, there is that intimate intimacy in in in touch that means that people feel very, you know, very comfortable sharing everything that it just just kind of like exacerbates the challenges that we're having in supporting our health or our allied health professionals. So yeah, interesting times

 

Eve Drew  04:41

Absolutely, That's such an interesting thing, isn't it that that touch and friend of mine that the psychologist has often talked about that exactly that because there's that that touch that physical touch, a lot of allied health professionals do that people will open up a lot more and often this consistency to so you both probably had patients over the years that you've seen for a very long time. So there is that personal relationship as well. But that emotional load is huge for a lot of people at the moment. And then the impact of that on the health professionals that are still in the system is that we are all then feeling that, I guess that burden of demand for services being higher than what we can deliver. And personally, I feel guilt attached to that, that I can't see more people and can't help more people. So

 

Dr Ali Young  05:27

yeah, yeah. And we can look at the neurological cascade as well of what's happened in the brains of health professionals. I think that, you know, we think that we're immune, because we know about it, but like, my story is I knew all about burnout didn't stop me getting burnout. And that is something that we're kind of dealt a little bit like we're Teflon on, nothing will hurt us, because where we have the knowledge, but having the knowledge is really different to living the knowledge and knowing what that looks like. And with my burnout, my burnout was pre COVID. But COVID is a beautiful example that we had the stress of running the business and keeping services open for our practice members. So changed our stress point in our brain and our our stress and resilience level that became our new stress point. So then small stresses, our brain just goes, Oh, if we're stressed, we feel like this. And so it creates that as our new normal of stress load. So we're getting an increased primary stress response, which changes the way our brain functions in the long term. And that's where we're getting these burnout signals happening so much earlier than perhaps they normally would as well.

 

Trisha Cashmere  06:45

I love this. I'm so glad we've got you, Ali. I'm going to ask you, I'm going to take it back. Yeah. So Ali Ali wrote a book for everyone that's listening called Work mama life. And it deals with all motherhood burnout, and I think health professional burnout, and some strategies to you know, get your mojo back. But can you give us you know, a bit of a definition of what burnout is and what it looks like? Yeah,

 

Dr Ali Young  07:10

so burnout can be what's commonly termed in the, I guess, some allied health or functional medicine is adrenal fatigue. True burnout is where our adrenals completely stop working well. And that's where I got to my cortisol had like fully bottomed out. But burnout is basically acute form of depression in one regard, and that you just can't feel like you can carry on, but it's combined with a physical symptom as well. And so your body needs a full reset out of that. And we it is a definition of a workplace health problem rather than a physical health problem. But there's definite physical markers, and often it is weight gain because of the cortisol change. And often it is malabsorption type stuff. So your minerals go wacky. And often it's associated with a neurological shift of something. So mine was I thought I actually had a pituitary tumor. So my face went really tingly. I had all of this rashes all over my face. And then MS type symptoms, so tingly body tingly hands, so that you know, as health professionals, we go, oh, my gosh, I'm dying. So you go and get all that checked out. And then that's not the thing. And so then you have to figure out well, what is it and reflection leads you to burnout? So it's generally not the first port of call, it's like a down the path. You've ruled everything else out? Or actually, maybe I've just gone too hard for too long. That's actually pretty terrifying,

 

Trisha Cashmere  08:37

frankly, but that group of symptoms, because if you didn't feel like shit before, sorry, for swearing, yeah.

 

Eve Drew  08:44

We need to put the explicit rating on.

 

Trisha Cashmere  08:47

I'm sorry. But the moment where you're like, Oh, I know. I've got MS. You know, that would just that would send me off the Richter right. Yeah. So well, okay. Yep. So that

 

Dr Ali Young  08:56

was one of the way you get to burnout is because you're doing so much stuff that you're paying zero attention. You've got no interoception or that ability to tell what your body's doing on the inside. Your brain doesn't know how to look at that because you've blocked it because you're too busy to focus on yourself. And so you Yeah, and you're in burnout, because there's shit going on. Now. We've said it once. I'll keep saying it. And it's really terrifying.

 

Trisha Cashmere  09:21

Yeah. Okay. So then the I'm sorry, I'm just going. I've got some questions for Ali so. I can now, your book is focused on on mothers and women. Yes, but I don't feel this is just a mother woman problem. How is it like the differences in gender and parental status? Are there differences, the different kinds of presentations or different incidence rates? Can you

 

Dr Ali Young  09:54

so definitely between men and women in heteronormative couples? Some women are 28% more likely to burn out than working working moms are working females are 28% more likely to burn out the working fathers. And that's a stat from the States last year. So it's a pretty good one. And, and we do know that burnout affects women in greater numbers, generally even not in a couple of type scenario, women will keep going, they will just keep going to the point of burnout, men will often completely crash throw their hands up, they might end up in hospital with like chest pain and stuff like that. Whereas women are more the slow burn of burnout. Women just kept going, keep going, we were just too scared of what. And there is a lot of perfect mother myth in this. But it's not just mothers, it's women in general, I feel that for us to prove our worth, we just have to continue doing the things that we think we should be doing. And those stories come from maybe it was your mum, maybe it's Instagram, maybe it's a profession wide thing for health practitioners that if you're not seen to be doing certain tick the box elements, then you aren't performing as you should be. And you're letting yourself your team, your the world society when we're giving in service. That's often a lot of it, I think for health professionals down. So we just keep going until we get to that point where we can't anymore. Gosh, yeah,

 

Eve Drew  11:29

No wonder it's so prevalent in health circles, I think we're carriers to give us the nurturers. And so we'll keep putting others

 

Dr Ali Young  11:37

first. Exactly. And I think working moms in health, particularly because they have this that they generally will have gone to university and studied their degree and started practice before they start their motherhood journey as a generalization. And then so they've got this beautiful way of giving service. And then all of a sudden, they're thrust into the world of giving another 100% to other people and finding that balance between Well, I don't want to not give to my family. But I also don't want to not give to my practice members. Where is the line? And how do I make that work? And how do I make that profitable? Still, if I can't be in there as much, so many layers to it to? Yes.

 

Eve Drew  12:22

Why that's like there are again us to show that the attrition rate is high, but particularly at that that age group, which is coincides with often when women have children that rather than trying to manage that and not be able to do it to their high expectations, I guess or our high expectations. We'll just leave the professional together. Yeah,

 

12:43

exactly. And we need to do better, we need to figure out ways that they can either scaffold, scaffold themselves into practice where they're not the only person there or figure out and actually get taught business. So they know how to figure out overheads and staffing so that they can practice two days a week, and it's not going to put them in the financial toilet. Like there's so many ways you can do it. But you have to be shown those ways that they can work because I think, like we just don't get taught any of that. I know in Chiro school, we don't get taught business. I'm pretty sure it's the same everywhere. And it's figured out as you go along. Yeah, yeah,

 

Eve Drew  13:22

absolutely. Just figure it out as we go along.

 

Trisha Cashmere  13:24

Dave does teach people to rally. Yes, go Eve

 

Eve Drew  13:29

Trying, and particularly again, working with women, and a lot of them it is that they are trying to create roles for themselves, that allow them to work on their terms, because they were not businesses, or corporations or public health models that allow for that. So it's like, okay, well, to stay in health, I need to create this for myself. But then not knowing how to run a business is pretty scary as well. So

 

13:48

My sister in law's a speech pathologist and watching her journey, she's got three children, and she has worked public and private at the same time. And they also have a farm and my brother is a farmer builder. slashy like he does all the things. And, and so she's eventually had to leave the public health to work at the private hospital. And then she does one or two days a week in school hours in home, like support for people on NDIS. And that's been able to make the hours work for her. But it's taken a long time to get there like she has been in practice as long as I have we are 20 years in so you know, it's a lot of given taken working the horror to get to that point in the system and I think figure out a way to make it happen where they can get there before that you don't have to go through the hard stuff.

 

Eve Drew  14:41

That's that's the dream. And the goal. Isn't it? Isn't these conversations that we have just need to keep happening, don't

 

Dr Ali Young  14:47

they? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

 

Eve Drew  14:51

I was thinking before when you're talking about, you know, exhaustion, as I mean, exhaustion is one of the signs of burnout, isn't it that I was reading some some articles about it in the healthcare setting. And that what can often happen is that then as health professionals we'll start to distance ourselves, and it can lead to then less empathy, reduce our listening. So it does have a big effect on not just the person, but to the businesses that we're working in and the clients that are receiving care. So it is an important conversation.

 

Dr Ali Young  15:25

I agree. Yeah, wholeheartedly. And even in my own experience, like, I'm pretty much six months after I figured it out, and I just can't do what I'm doing. And so I lost a full day, I just went no, I'm gonna only work two and a half days a week now. And, and it was a tough one, because I knew I wasn't showing up. By the time I was getting to day four of the week, I was like, I can't be nice to these people anymore. And so it was a matter of learning where that setpoint was, I think, and and how to navigate that. Do we do shortish? Like more frequent short days? Or does for that individual does have one or two long days work better? Like where does that energy reserves fit? Because they are finite?

 

Trisha Cashmere  16:11

Yeah, I think it's, it's going to be different for everybody, though. And I think, employer, you know, trying to offer people that flexibility to work out what they need, though, you know, one of the biggest challenges that, you know, as we talk through all of this is, you know, the way that we we bill our clients in the private space, is, you know, that fee for service bills. So, billing, so you know, that for someone to make the sort of, Eve and I we're just talking about cost of living happening in Australia at the moment, there's a certain amount of income that's required to be able to have a lifestyle. So it just says, like, everything's crashing in together.

 

Dr Ali Young  16:51

Yeah, I agree. And how can we get the support staff to a point where they can maximize your time in the practice as well. So like it, because it's not just the practitioner, it's making sure that if you're there, that you're not sitting around twiddling your thumbs for an hour in between people, like you've filled that time you use your time effectively, and then you can go and rest and do what you need to do outside of it as well. Yeah, yeah. It's definitely cost of living is a big factor. For Associates, and owners. Yeah.

 

Eve Drew  17:24

Absolutely. I think it's a good point, saying that Trisha, that an Ali even just that that model is different for everybody. So, you know, I was thinking for me, I think I've finally found a point. That's right, two days a week for me clinically, is my happy spot at the moment. That's really interesting. If I do another one, I just feel really depleted. So I feel I can bring my best energy if I do that. But as soon as I go over that, it starts to be exhausting. Because it's not just the client time either there's follow up, there's letters, there's check ins, like, it's not just the consult, that is the time we're spending with someone is that?

 

Dr Ali Young  17:59

Yeah, I absolutely agree. And I think also, like, my personally, we run a pediatric dominant pregnancy practice. And so the letters is like so much writing to NDIS, and other health care providers. And because we're regional, like you'd experience Eve, often writing referral documents that have to get sent so that people can get seen in other locations. So they need to be timely and all that kind of thing to which when I was in the city was wait seems way easier than where I am now. So yeah, there's definitely those factors, too. And for me, my sweet spot is one long day and two short days. So. So it's very similar as to and I start Mondays, I have no, I do appointments like this. I do not see people in practice, because I'm, after a weekend, I'd like to get my week ready.

 

Eve Drew  18:52

I'm the same. Yeah. My Monday for me is that otherwise, I'm thinking about it on Sunday. It's just to do this kind of work that really lifts the energy before we get into that clinical work, which is a different energy for sure. Yeah, absolutely.

 

Dr Ali Young  19:05

Yeah.

 

Eve Drew  19:08

What do you think some of the key things is, so someone listening is feeling like, I think I might be, you know, at risk of burnout. On that slippery slope? What do you think are some of the key things I know, this will differ for everybody? Of course, what are some of the key things that we can do as humans to reduce the risk to catch ourselves? Before we get to that point?

 

Dr Ali Young  19:30

I think one of the things that I work with with the mums I work with is that we need to actually look at what matters to us now. So we've often set our life up within a values paradigm of what really mattered. What really mattered to us before we had children, and then we assume that the way we're going to practice is going to be exactly the same but predominantly it isn't. So we actually always go through a values  dreamscape type work so that they can actually really think about what they want to do for themselves. And then we look at time and figure that out. And then we look with the business owners at profit, and we figure out okay, so how can we make all of that work together. So that's from a business perspective. But then, personally, I think that we need to lose the mom guilt around self care. Sometimes a five minute walk every day, we need at least time to ourselves. And for some women, five minutes, sitting down with a cup of tea, and a book or Mindlessly scrolling tick tock, or Instagram or whatever you need to do to just, ah, is really great. But more than that, we need to look at how we're fueling ourselves. So what are nourishment is, we need to look at how we move our body, because that's really vital. We need to look at how we're sleeping and our quality of sleep, we need to be super mindful that we are turning screens off before we go to bed, and ideally, not have your phone in your room for your alarm clock, because of all of the way that impacts on sleep. It's not woowoo anymore, it's actually fact. And we need to look at how we can create calm within ourselves and within our environment. And if you are working in health care, we focus a lot on creating calm with in our practice, because we know that healing happens best when we're in the perfect realm in the polyvagal lens. And so we look at well, how do we hack our brain. So it senses safety, because safety is the way that we support healing. And safety is, you know, gentle touch, quiet conversation, good music, that sense of community, we always have herbal tea going like all that sort of touch points that help to signal safety, but we do those for other people. But we don't always do those for ourselves. So how can we make that a really important part of our day. So calm for me is waking up, opening my windows, listening to the birds, going outside, and then moving my body and that gets my system ready for the day. And that's been a consistent thing. But when my kids were little definitely dropped off. And it's been a conscious choice now. And I think we have to look at those conscious choices. And I think the other one is connection. Like how are we creating a connection with ourselves, our brain, the thing that makes us human is that we actually are healthier if we have social connection. And we have that social pathway. And, and it might be this kind of thing like talking with colleagues online in ideally, it's human connection. And as healthcare providers, we can get drained by that if we don't have parameters in place. But as human beings, we need a connection space outside of that to support our brain, our soul, our system to be good. So those are the five things that I would really recommend.

 

Trisha Cashmere  22:54

Yeah, absolutely. Can we list those at the end?

 

Dr Ali Young  22:57

Yes, absolutely. Well, they're in my book. So the chapters in my book as well. So nourished, move, thinking, calm, sleep and connection. And you can change how those work, depending on what's most important for you at that point in time, too. Yeah,

 

Trisha Cashmere  23:16

yeah. And it is it's kind of varying, isn't it time, you know, different different points, different things need to, you know, go up and down. Sometimes more exercise can be exhausting. And certainly, you know,

 

Dr Ali Young  23:28

yeah, yeah. And for me, when I was in the burnout phase, the most important thing was to nourish myself in a very specific way to heal my body, and to stop exercising in the way that I was, because it was, it was burning my adrenals out more. And a key indicator of that is if you go to the gym, and then you come home and you're tired for two days. Or if you're going to get hit workout or your CrossFit. Well, that's your body saying I can't cope with that right now. I need to dial that back. And maybe you need to do low intensity stuff. So go for a walk or do some gentle interval training or something like that, that's just going to your soul yoga, it's combined with breath, it's beautiful Pilates, similar type of stuff. It's working that thorax that chest wall, that diaphragm, and it's helping all that function better to

 

Eve Drew  24:16

there's, I mean, there's so much evidence to support that, you know, nourishment movement and good sleep. Like it's, it's every area, isn't it? And yet, sometimes they're the first things that we drop off when we're not feeling great. And that you know, the reasons for that we'll go for the quick dopamine hit and have the chocolate or the quick, you know, the quick things that feel good in the moment. But how important is to consciously and with intent to go okay, there's the things I know that are going to make me feel better. And so I'm going to commit to some low intensity walking or some strengthening training or whatever it is, in terms of nourishment, what's what was some of the, like the key things again, that in terms of the diet and the nourishment that you were Choosing what was some of the main things.

 

Dr Ali Young  25:03

So I went in, I actually worked with an integrative nutritionist from Melbourne to get my body back on track. And, and she was phenomenal. So she DNA tested me. And then she figured out a specific healthy eating plan to do that. And it was pretty intense. I won't lie. Like in the first two weeks, I lost something like five kilos of inflammation, like it was out of control. But it was obviously no sugar, no alcohol, no caffeine. But it was also low carb, pretty much no starch, it was just all the grains, all the veggies and specific low fat proteins, because my DNA shows that I can't break down high fat meats, and, and then just building back in from that the things that mattered. And that healed my gut, which meant that I could then bring back other foods in, which was really, really good. But I think what we, when we're busy, we often go to the easy options, and they aren't real food often. And so if we can just focus on whole foods, like things that we look at, and we go, this is a plant and it came from the ground. That's a really great place to start versus I'm just going to grab this packet of dried broccoli with with stuff on it. Sure it's a packet from the supermarket, but what process has it gone through? How can we just get that nourishment in easier?

 

Trisha Cashmere  26:29

It's been such a disconnection that Ali like I feel. And I it's nobody, well, it is somebody's fault. It's not, it's not the community's fault. But it's like so many things, there's so much money pushing advertising for, you know, companies that make enormous amounts of money selling us things that aren't really actually food anymore. So processed, but when you go to the supermarket that is like probably 80% of the stuff that's in there now. And so when you're a hurried person who's you know, rushing through probably hungry,

 

27:04

how can i get this

 

Trisha Cashmere  27:06

what's the quickest thing what's going to, you know, feed my screaming children, the minute that I get home, you know, or better still in the car on the way. Like, it's a really, it's a very difficult thing. And so I just, if, if everyone could just slow down a little bit and take that little bit more time, you know,

 

Dr Ali Young  27:24

it makes such a huge difference. And it's fine. I reckon the kids, once they get into it, it's very hard to change at the start. But once they get into it, they actually like that, like my daughter like salad for breakfast and my son loves smoothies. I'm like, okay, great. We're winning at life right here. And, and maybe a bit of banana on toast and I'm like, That's okay, we're cool with that as well. And, but it hasn't always been that way. Like they'll go through phases and and I think like you said, if I shot the outside of the supermarket, I'm really happy with myself when I go through the aisles of course there's certain things I mean, I'm not going to make homemade corn chips to put with my homemade nachos because I'm not making homemade corn chips. So I will go and buy the corn chips like you know, there's life as well. I think that's okay, Ali. Yeah, if I used to make my own corn chips so I went through that when we lived in South Korea, because you couldn't get anything gluten free and I'm a celiac and so you had to make everything from scratch. I could make a tortilla like there was no tomorrow and I do not have that skill anymore. It is not happening just

 

Trisha Cashmere  28:36

run away I'm tempted to say how do you start but we won't go

 

Dr Ali Young  28:43

purchased flours from random places

 

Trisha Cashmere  28:48

but it's it's difficult and I and so I sort of I suppose I just want to bring it up because I don't want people to like judge themselves harshly right because they have judgment and guilt around and making poor choices just compounds the problem and the reality is that almost the world is set up against you to make the right choices. So don't feel bad and don't feel you know that you're failing. But just maybe you know, think about what you're going to have for lunch tomorrow and what you need to do to make that happen so that you can have a healthy lunch just one day to start with you start

 

29:19

with one day and I reckon even easier, what can you make for dinner tomorrow night that then feeds forward to lunch the next day. So then you two meals in one and and I think that simplicity of leftovers is often forgotten, like we'll do a lot of slow cooked food because it also is easier to digest often and those heavier meats and things and then we just get a salad for the next day. So we'll have it with vegetables at night and then we'll have it with a salad or sometimes a wrap the next day and that's two meals at one done. tickety boo and it's healthy food

 

Trisha Cashmere  29:52

as a recipe options in your book as there is

 

Dr Ali Young  29:55

actually a whole section at the back. Going to be having a look at that later today. Rereading that section.

 

Trisha Cashmere  30:03

I'm not saying I'm not saying that tortilla recipe just

 

Dr Ali Young  30:09

I seriously can't even remember how I used to make. I think it was coconut flour, eggs, and it was a crepe French crepe. And it was, yeah. psyllium husk because psyllium is very binding, like, hey, yeah,

 

Trisha Cashmere  30:28

I'll be like, You, I'm never gonna do that.

 

Dr Ali Young  30:30

Now I'm not moved overseas, again, I would probably force myself to because I do really like a decent wrap. But um, yeah, that's not a common thing these days. That's okay.

 

Trisha Cashmere  30:42

That's okay. So I'm interested, because we were talking about everyone generally. But do we? Do we think that this is more difficult for mothers? Or do you think that as mothers, we're just taking on more responsibility for not just the people that we're working with, you know, at work, but in our families, that's just kind of contributing to what's going on here.

 

Dr Ali Young  31:07

I definitely think that as a whole, the perception is that we're getting better at sharing the load at home. But research tells us that we're not and, and that, generally, we are still trying to make a home as if we were able to stay at home and do that and how we would like to so we are doing all of the things. And then we are going to work and we're trying to do all of the things. And it is really hard. And one of the most empowering things as women we can do is ask for support. And one of the things we step through is well, what does support look like for you what would be the best thing that you could get support in? For me, it's the running around after school. And it is not thinking about what I'm cooking for dinner. So everyone in my house chooses one dish main dish so that I'm sick of thinking about what we're going to eat. And that makes I'll shop for it and I'll cook it, you just tell me what you want. And that is so much easier in my brain. Also get my kids have chores they have to do, which I think is something that maybe we forget to because we're all busy. And that does take longer at the start. So often we don't get our kids doing chores, because it's just easier if we do it. And so we have to set those sorts of things up as well from the start saying that they watched survivor today, and they did not hang the washing out.

 

Trisha Cashmere  32:32

I make my children do that right now.

 

Dr Ali Young  32:34

So ah, see, I'm not far off that.

 

Trisha Cashmere  32:37

That'd be the big children. But I'm just like that, guys.

 

Dr Ali Young  32:42

Do it. Boys, too. You've got to do

 

Trisha Cashmere  32:45

that. Yeah, but the learning that I have is that once it gets into the washing machine, I need to leave it there. Yeah. You

 

Dr Ali Young  32:52

do your own washing and then put it back in again.

 

Trisha Cashmere  32:55

No, I will take that and put in a basket and then just put it in the middle of the kitchen table and leave it there. Yes. And just do my own stuff because you know, yeah, consequences.

 

Dr Ali Young  33:07

Yeah. And my mum was a working mum as well. And so we would always have the things that we had to do for her. And before she left in the morning, she would leave it that list. And we knew if we didn't get that stuff done, and she got home, there was a lot of heavy discussion around our priorities. And she definitely wouldn't pick up the slack if we forgot something. Like if we didn't put our sport uniform for after school stuck in our bag. Well, that's out on us and you do it in your school uniform. So there's, I think we, you know, it learning how to empower that next generation initially can feel really overwhelming, but asking for that support is a really big thing, too. Yeah, absolutely.

 

Trisha Cashmere  33:45

Don't want to set up the same paradigm that you know, they've got us here in the first place. No, yeah, no. Good job, ladies. We'll continue with that. Yes,

 

Eve Drew  33:54

I need to start like Right okay  today I'm going to start

 

Dr Ali Young  34:02

the recycling bin because generally it's not heavy because it's taking cardboard, and the dishwasher. And I've moved everything low. So they can do all of that. And, and they've requested animals for birthday. So now they're responsible for their own animals as well. That's a good place and make your bed before you leave. Open your windows. Open your curtains.

 

Eve Drew  34:21

Yeah. You love it.

 

Trisha Cashmere  34:23

I just let my children live in filth. I don't care. I just don't go in there.

 

Dr Ali Young  34:28

Yesterday. We did triathlons in the morning. And then we came home and we tidied our bedrooms. And so I'm starting Monday good because that I can see floors in it is a win.

 

Trisha Cashmere  34:41

Isn't it? Yeah, absolutely.

 

Eve Drew  34:43

 

 

Trisha Cashmere  34:46

If you could give one piece of advice to see a young health professional who's just starting out, Ali, what would it be?

 

Dr Ali Young  34:52

I think it would be be really cognizant of where your energy is high and where your energy is low? And then think about. So this fills my cup. And this takes away from my cup, which How can I get more filling and less taking away? So that's going to be different for everybody. But I think if they go right working with this genre of people, or demographic of people or being in practice is really great. So sure, I'm going to do more of that. But I find that if I've done two days of big split shifts, I'm really cooked by the end of the fourth shift. So maybe I need to be mindful of that. So I have a day off after that, or I don't do that shift. And then I do another one the next day. So it's about listening in. And I think that we don't give ourselves we're always looking for outside in information, and someone to tell us, what's the best way to do things. And we forget how powerful we are within ourselves to make those decisions. And yes, if you work for someone else, obviously, you have to do what your boss says. But I think if we can open conversations about that, that is going to be really powerful at setting the next generation up before they hit burnout to go. Yeah, okay, so this was work really working for me, let's make that happen. Again,

 

Trisha Cashmere  36:16

I think that's fantastic advice. I know that with my team, we sort of, you know, try and support them for the first couple of years just to really consolidate their skills and, and get mastery in their profession. Because I personally feel like mastery is almost protective against burnout. When you feel like you know, what you're doing. And you feel like you've you know, you've got either the answers, or you've got a network to support you to get to the right answers, that you at least go home every day feeling like you've ticked you know, done some good things rather than that, Oh, my God, you know, I can't do this, which is terrible. But that's a lovely, a lovely thing to reflect on while you're going through that stage. You know, what are those things and, and I liked that you talked about not just, you know, specialization, but actually, you know, what population in I've got a team member, who's a younger man who loves working with middle aged women, it's like his happy place, he said, because they love to talk about the children, and I love to talk about the children. It's beautiful. But you know, so often, it's like, I want to work with sports people or want to work with whatever but maybe the you know, you need to actually think about not not a no such thing, as opposed to just, there's a particular type of person that really lights my fire. And if I can find more of them, I know that Eve got a similar kind of crew that you like to spend your days with. So I think that's, that's beautiful advice. And I'm gonna add it to my quarterly conversations with my team. Ali thank you.

 

37:46

My pleasure. You know, we actually talk about each team member creates their own personal avatar of the people that they love. Yeah. And we create a name for them, and we write about them and we embody who that is. And then within our trainings, we can go right, are we talking about stressy? Susan today? Are we talking about Postman Pat, like, who are we embodying within those teams? And other thing on that, Trisha, I really like what you said is we talked about unconscious competence. So you go from unconscious incompetence to consciously being aware, you can't do something to consciously be competent to just being really masterful at it. And that's that stepping process, which will give you that freedom.

 

Trisha Cashmere  38:28

But But I do think, and even as this is one of my bugbear is that maybe as health professionals, generally, a lot of businesses aren't great at supporting their young team to get that mastery. There's expectation that they go in, and they just get given massive workloads, no reflection time, no mentoring, no support. And it doesn't surprise me that there's massive attrition when you've got people going into that sort of in a hothouse environment with all those pressures.

 

Dr Ali Young  38:56

Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly. I've got an associate who's a recent graduate who works with me, and where she came to me for the high paediatric load in the practice. But that means that we still do twice weekly case, mentoring, and we talk about adjusting and she records things and we listened to it. And we talked back about that. And that needs to happen, because there's no way that she would feel confident and competent and certain in her skill set if she didn't get that and that will give longevity versus what I got when I graduated, which is here's other people good luck. If you don't do this, you're in trouble. Yeah. And very different mindset.

 

Trisha Cashmere  39:34

Yeah, absolutely. So people find the right job. Yeah, exactly.

 

Eve Drew  39:39

Absolutely. Great advice. I think that advice for the individuals also can then be carried over to business owners, isn't it as what what can business owners be doing to support people so that because we have a responsibility to support our people, not just in in that clinical mentoring, but also in the human side of things and make sure they're flourishing? And there's different that we'll look to for everybody. But to hear I heard last week that the attrition rate for physios at the moment is between four and five years. And so these very highly educated and very intelligent people going into study physiotherapy and have a huge HECs, of course, and then they're leaving the profession, I think for podiatry, it was around seven. And, you know, there's probably data around all the other professions, but burnout is real. And people feel like they're floundering, or languishing was the word through through COVID, that was used a lot. We really need to support people to create the role that suits them, and the client load that lights them up. Because if we're seeing lots of our ideal clients, then we're enjoying our day, aren't we?

 

Dr Ali Young  40:45

Yeah. Then you go home and your cup is happy. And then you can be the person you want to be in your home environment as well. Because you're not going home. Like don't talk to me. I just need an hour. And and sometimes we have those days. But if that's me, too, that's the

 

Eve Drew  40:59

problem. Yeah. Yeah. And that does happen. I can speak from experience. That's my, that's me on a full time clinical load, basically. Yeah, I can't do anything else during the week. No one call me don't speak to anyone look at me, because I'm exhausted.

 

41:17

Zero bandwidth. But anything else? I I remember when COVID first sort of came to town, and there was that unknown of what our health practices be shut down? And what's that going to look like? And everyone was very scared and fearful. And so high touch point, practice. Everyone tells you everything. I've got home. And it's one of only two clear times I was like, I can't I'm not leave me. And I just went and sat in a room and couldn't talk to anybody in my family for hours, because I just needed that. Ah, and did some crazy ass meditation to try and get my brain sorted and went in for a walk. And then I came back as Okay, now can have hugs. Let's do this. But it was it's not a nice place to be. And I'm worried that people are getting there quicker. Yeah, the pandemic for that to happen to me. I'm really worried that it is going to get there quicker for a lot of people. I think so too.

 

Trisha Cashmere  42:09

Yeah. So what are our five things that we're going to do to stop this happening?

 

Dr Ali Young  42:14

We are going to, well, we've got the five pillars of motherhood health, that we are going to actually think about what matters to us most what are our values now in the space we're in right now versus what we may have thought about previously. Then we will look at our nourishment, our movement, our calm thinking space, our sleep quality, and our connection with people. effect.

 

Eve Drew  42:40

We're gonna leave it there. Thank you. So much, Ali, pearls of wisdom. Ellie's book, work mama life. Get your hands on. It's an amazing read, particularly for mothers but for anyone. And yeah, those pearls that hopefully, all the health professionals listening out there can take something from that and have a think about things before they get to that point of burnout, which we have all experienced. So thanks,Ali. Good to see you, Trisha. And we'll see you next time on the business of health podcast.

 

Trisha Cashmere  43:14

Have a great day. Thanks. So thanks. Thanks, Ali.

 

Eve Drew  43:17

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the business of health. Please share it with your friends, and be sure to tag me Eve at herhealth_collective and Trisha at Healthybody_co so we can say thank you.

 

Trisha Cashmere  43:31

If you enjoyed listening to us, make sure you follow the podcast on your preferred platform. And if you want to make us really happy give us a five star review so that more allied health professionals like you can find us. We would love to hear from you and we want to tailor our podcast to your needs. So if you have any questions or comments, you can email us at [email protected].

 

Eve Drew  43:54

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